So, last night I lurked around and watched a chat session on Twitter (#YALitChat) that was based on the question: Why do men write YA?
Yeah. I wanted to see what people would say about that.
Maybe they'd have psychologists and stuff.
Maybe it would be like a Dateline NBC sting where I'd show up with a manuscript in my hand and some actor-playing-an-innocent-teen would slip out to get some reading glasses and instruct me to sit down and pour myself some sweet tea.
But nobody answered the question.
That's why I'm here.
To answer the question.
And have some tea (unsweetened).
Okay, coffee. Black.
First of all, maybe it's just me. Maybe if I had lots of hair on the back of my neck (ewww) it would be standing up, or if I were a rooster, the corresponding hackles would now be elevated. But I think there's an underlying implication in the phrasing of the question.
Why do men write YA?
Maybe the questioner didn't intend it to sound so... um... biased? As though men are violating some kind of evolutionary imperative... you know, the kinds that were addressed in the 50s and 60s on the other side of the gender divide when "experts" presumed to ask why women sought careers or avoided pregnancy?
So, here's the answer to your question:
Real men write.
We always have, going all the way back to the cave walls in Lascaux and Altamira.
The "YA" part is nothing more than cupboard space assigned by cupboard-space-assigners who think up taxonomic catchphrases which lower their organizational anxiety levels.
We write.
Human beings write. And we like to write about the human experience and people, or burials, sex, and animals we hunt and shit like that.
I know.
I'm too highstrung.
Maybe that's why I write.
33 comments:
I actually hate these kinds of questions. When people starting talking about men writing YA or how more men need to represent in YA or how there aren't enough boys reading, there's always this inevitable push back from female writers who believe that men have dominated literature for far too long and that boys should just learn to read what's out there and like it.
I think it's all a load of crap. I'm a guy. I write. Sometimes I write books that appeal primarily to other guys. Sometimes not. Sometimes my narrators are guys. Sometimes not. There's nothing special about that. Nothing unique. Guys write, girls write, everyone writes. Writing, in YA or any other genre, doesn't belong to any one gender.
I wish people would just get that through their heads.
I was trying to avoid reading those tweets from Jay Asher and Scott Westerfield because I was messing around on Twitter last night. You know? Just having fun.
Like this:
Who's Gonna Take These Rescue Pets Home Tonight? #PopStarCauses #TheCars
Or:
Teenage Wasteland Rehab Center #PopStarCauses #TheWho
Sometimes I think I'm an idiot, and I'm okay with that.
There were some good conversations going on that got away from the main topic question. I'm glad I ended up lurking because the way the topic was phrased put me right off, too. Why couldn't it just have been a night with a few male YA authors?
The question makes it sound like having a penis and holding a pen are mutually exclusive. Well, I have two hands.
I have no idea how to make that sentence not sound dirty.
I think people ask it in the same sphere of "Why did you climb Mt. Everest?" It's not meant to be perceived as offensive or ignorant (I hope). I think its coming from curiosity and a dash of awe.
It's just a simpler way of asking "Wow, with an industry that is geared mostly to women and is dominated by women writers, how do you overcome those odds and perceiver?"
At least, that's what I mean when I ask it. :)
I totally disagree with Tipsy. A comparable question would be, "Why do women climb Mount Everest?"
Thanks for saying that, Jonathan. Whenever we ask questions that begin with "Why" and include some sub-segment of the population, I get a little uncomfortable about the unstated assumptions in the question. Very few people complain about the obvious anti-male biases and assumptions made in YA (because, as Tipsy says, it's "geared for" and "dominated" by women), or they want to call me a whiner or crybaby for pointing this out... but the same kinds of issues have come up time and time again throughout history where some groups were perceived as being "in" and other groups were supposed to just suck it up and deal with it (which is also an issue behind the anti-male bias in so-called "YA").
If you want to see how the potential impact can be offensive, just go back through the chat log and substitute out the word "male" or "boy" or "guy" for any ethnic group, or perhaps some label of disability, or "girl" or "chick" and the agenda becomes not so benign.
I suppose that I could answer that I write YA because I'm an emotionally retarded man child who still collects action figures, reads comic books, and eats Fruity Pebbles for dinner.
But the truth is that I write the books I write because all my other ideas are boring. People can think of that what they will.
I can see why that question would bother you.
I'm going to get rambly, because this issue has been on my mind a lot lately...
I think, to get to the root of the matter, we also need to consider to what degree the very visible online community reflects the actual state of whether and how males are reading (and writing) or not. The online YA community is vibrant and fun and made up of probably 95% females. Events like YA in Bloom are a reflection of the female-heavy ratios of book bloggers/Twitter/etc. Is there a way to make it more inclusive? To what degree is the lack of participation simply a lack of interest on the part of male readers?
Definitely the communities that spring up around most YA books are female-centric. Would creating a less gender-specific community attract boys?
For instance, 5--or possibly 6--of the chapter books bestsellers this week are written by men (uh... is Pittacus Lore a man?). That would seem to suggest that males are well represented in the YA market, but practically speaking, there's a disconnect. A walk down the YA aisle at any given bookstore can feel like a stroll down the Barbie aisle at a toy store.
The simple fact seems to be that boys are reading less YA because most YA is skewed toward girls. But it might be a vicious cycle for the boys: if they want more, they must read more. And to get them to read more, we need more content that appeals to them. But where is the proof that such content is commercially viable--and I don't mean that as a value judgment, but economically?
If squeaky wheels get the grease, how do we get young men to start squeaking? Does some of the responsibility for this inclusiveness lie with female readers and authors? And how do we encourage boys to cross gender lines and read books written by women, too?
It's a really interesting and leading topic. As an author, I truly believe that it's a shame that any reader should be underserved--or that any talented writer should be shut out of a market by default.
Let's fight.
Just kidding. I love Katie.
I think you make some good points, and I think Pittacus Lore may actually be a lot of people -- more like a sponge colony than an actual human.
I posted this as a comment on another blog today, but I think it speaks to part of the issue:
YA is a contrived marketing niche in the vast emporium of literacy.
Marketers went after teen girls with disposable spending money. They didn't want boys involved (and a lot of them still don't. Sadly, there are plenty of authors who not-so-subtly express resentment and disdain for boystench in YA).
Unfortunately, the clever get-your-dollars collusion between marketers, booksellers, and, later, teachers and librarians, began to also give rise to the side-effect that since "YA" equals "Teen Reader" and since "YA" excluded "Boy," THEREFORE, no boy was a teen reader. We just have to break that deeply-entrenched and erroneous belief.
It's a recent development, but the problem is an artificial one that is rooted in the genesis of a money-making marketing ploy that basically shook girls down for their spending money.
Is there content that teen boys want to read? Definitely. And it's economically viable, too. And it isn't all knee-jerky nonfiction bullshit about wars and firetrucks and blowing shit up, either.
On the question of whether boy-friendly YA is economically viable: duh. I'm not living under a bridge (anymore.) It's harder if you're going single title than if you're going series, but that's not so much about gender.
What people miss is that even if boys are only, say, 30% of the market, that's still a whole lot of books. Toyota sells more cars than their sister brand Lexus by aiming at the broad middle of the market. But Lexus still sells plenty of cars.
The problem I have is with publishers who make it basically impossible to sell boys a book by slapping on covers that say No Boys Allowed. You have to have a pretty big pair to be 14 and walk across campus carrying the average YA novel.
There's been a failure of imagination, and I think a failure to understand basic marketing facts. You don't need to send the fuck-off signal to boys in order to sell to girls. You can sell to both.
Unfortunately publishers don't really have a relationship with, or understanding of, the retail customer, the reader. (They have almost literally NO data on readers.) Their relationships are with the B&N or Target or Costco buyer. Those buyers are undoubtedly wise, witty and attractive people (suck up) but it becomes a game of gossip -- reader to cash register to buyer to publisher. And all of it is driving using the rear view mirror. It's all about where the market was last year, not about where it might be or where we can make it be in three years.
Finally, some of this boy vs. girl thing is an unintended is a diss on girls. Girls will read action and horror and genre generally. They'll read so-called boy stories. Let's stop assuming that they are limited and want to be fed a steady diet of pink-and-black.
I agree with what you say, Michael. But I was also getting a little anxious about all the anecdotal pronouncements of "what boys like" taking place in the chat last night. Because in the same way that girls' tastes cover a broad spectrum, so do boys'.
I get tired of seeing the auto-reflex of librarians who accept as science that boy equals nonfiction or comic book.
Because I can tell you what all boys really do like: making their own decisions. When we begin to give boys the tools that empower them as readers (in school, at home, in the community) as opposed to writing them off or assigning them into certain narrowly-defined tiger cages of literacy, then we will recapture them again -- as readers and as important players in the market -- the emporium of literacy.
It's a no-brainer, and with the shift to hybridized e-readable books (not that paper books will ever go away), the corporations are STUPID for not jumping in and running with the opportunity to save their short-sighted asses.
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go paint something big I'm about to kill on the wall of my cave.
Thank you, Mr. Grant, for pointing out that the talk of boy books often comes across as a slight against girl readers (and, I would argue, vice versa!) I was also anxious/uncomfortable about the "what boys like" pronouncements - at one point someone asked, regarding my complaint that many ostensibly dystopian books are more romance novels than anything, "well, what else would you like to be doing at the end of the world?" Sure as an adult woman I'd cozy up with my husband, but when I was a teenager? I would have wanted to be the girl working to bring down the system, and would have viewed a romance as an impediment towards my larger goal! Let the marketers wrestle with who a book should be "targeted" to - authors should be focusing on storytelling and appealing to people (who love action, and/or romance, and/or grisly horror...), not genders.
I'm in 90% agreement with Michael.
The biggest problem I see is cover marketing. Take the book cover of Invincible Summer. Scantily clad girl in a bikini. A guy would feel embarrassed carrying that around. Why?
That's the problem. Essentially labeling something a "boy" book or a "girl" book makes boys think they aren't supposed to like something because feminine is seen as inferior in our society. Instead of going back and forth on this (and Andrew, I have to say, that question was the stupidest thing I've seen in a while, kudos to not exploding) why don't we make "girl" books more approachable for guys. Tell them it's okay to read a romance in public. They don't have to worry about being called gay (though there's nothing wrong with being gay) or feminine.
Plenty of girls play video games and read comic books, yet their representation in such in minimal, and if they are included, it's usually as the girlfriend. And female authors are perpetuating these double standards. Instead of saying we need more boy books, tell YA writers to make their boys three dimensional characters instead of airheaded abusive douchebags. Make the romance worth their time. Romance isn't synonymous with bad. It can be good, but until we tell boys that they can like it, we won't get any where with the marketing problem because they won't read any YA at all. We need demand before publishers will react.
I just want to respond to something Katie said.
"If squeaky wheels get the grease, how do we get young men to start squeaking? Does some of the responsibility for this inclusiveness lie with female readers and authors? And how do we encourage boys to cross gender lines and read books written by women, too?"
I'm by no means as qualified as Andrew, Michael, or Shaun to wax on this subject but I think the first part of the answer to that question is an easy one.
We have to write great books. Andrew and Shaun are both doing it, as well as a mutual friend of ours Joe Lunievicz (sorry Michael, I haven't read your work yet, but I'll include you, because I know what Andrew thinks and I trust his judgment absolutely).
Short of coming up with our own imprint (and calling our books YY lit, for Yin/Yang or the Y chromosome), or just self publishing and spending all our time marketing ourselves, the only thing we can really control is what we write.
That and the collective consciousness. Personally I believe that if you talk about something, and you make good arguments, and you communicate with intelligent people who you trust, you can change things.
When it comes to getting boys to read books written by women, it's all about the stories. I have a running inside joke that is probably only funny to me, but when one of my blogger friends, (mostly women) reviews a book that sounds very girly, I leave a comment asking if there are any sword fights. I'm being obviously saracastic, and it's a hyperbolic question, but the point is I want some variety in the stories I read.
I don't give a damn who wrote a book, I just care how the story is told, what happens, and who it happens to. I felt the same way when I was a teenager. One of my very favorite series at the time was written by a pair of authors. One was a man, the other a woman.
And I'm also a little frustrated with you, Andrew (not really). I had been planning on asking you, Shaun, and Joe if you guys were interested in taking part in a super post about writing books for young men.
I'd been planning the whole thing for a day or two, thinking what I wanted to ask you (it wouldn't be an interview, I know you're done with those) and wanting to just have a place where you could all express why it's important that young men read, how you go about writing stories that appeal to them, and what you think about books, stories, writing and reading when it comes to gender in general.
I was hoping for an informative, positive post, and it wouldn't even have had to be on my blog, but now I'm obviously scrapping the idea. There's too much negativity.
Not that it's your fault or anything.
Paint or kill something for me, will ya.
Two points to consider:
Publishing changes very slowly--this conversation has been going on for all of my 35 years in and around the business. A certain sense of discovery can be expected from writers and readers in the dawn of their adulthood, but as with most things in our net-driven, instant gratification world of truthiness, it would make everyone's argument a lot stronger if they backed up their opinions with research. Find an essay by Bruce Brooks titled "Real Boys Read Books" from his book Boys Will Be. 20 years old and as current as tomorrow's headlines.
As for marketing, I'm glad you mentioned that YA is a marketing category. That's all it is, and to treat it as anything else shows a great lack of understanding of the business. The economies of scale in publishing are such that the entire annual YA marketing budget of every publisher who sells to teens combined is dwarfed by the ad budget of one summer teen movie. The money is piss poor, which is why the people who market books for teens (all of 'em my friends) tend to be dedicated book lovers who truly believe in the product they are selling and not marketing geniuses. If they were, they would be working selling products that paid them far more handsomely.
Seriously, these are some of the brightest comments being made during a pretty dim month in the history of Young Adult literature. Nice way to kick June's ass by having some intelligent people who actually know what they're talking about discuss YA in a civil and considerate manner. Thank you all -- and I hope more will chime in. Maybe we do need to discuss the manner in which marketing may be counterproductive to literacy in that it subliminally strengthens the message boys (and many others) seem to be buying in to regarding reading through the teen (Young Adult) years.
I think Andrew hits it on the head in a way. We're so busy trying to tell boys and girls what to read. Girls should love paranormal romances and boys should love comics and books with stuff being blown up. But what we really need to be doing is writing awesome books and then shutting the heck up and letting them read them.
I know publishing is about money. I know that the fact that the big media conglomerates now own all the publishers means that making money is more important than anything else.
But screw all that. Screw the marketing the handwringing and the idea that genders are so locked into their societal roles that they're only capable of reading certain types of books.
What if books had no covers? What if people had to read a book to know what it was about without having a publisher shove what they want you to think it's about down your throat as you're perusing the aisles?
I'm tired and probably have no idea what I'm talking about anymore. The truth is that guys are out there writing great books. Women are out there writing great books. Boys and girls are eager to read those books. I think it'd be nice we everyone stopped putting up barriers between the two.
My friend Lena Coakley has a (wonderful) book, Witchlanders, coming out in a couple of months. Her book features two male protagonists. And yet, the cover image is of a female. After reading some of these comments, I have a better idea of why the marketing department decided that was the way to go.
It's a beautiful cover, but I can't help wondering if the book will reach as wide a readership this way. Yes, it should be fine for a male or female teen to carry around any book, no matter what's on the cover... but I'm not convinced that that's the case. Let's face it, high school can be a cruel and scary place.
I write mostly for reluctant readers, and I'm always told that means writing for mostly boys. Not sure why that has to be the case. Maybe it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
As a teen, I read a lot of "non-girl" books. I liked spaceships; what can I say? But I think that somehow girls had more freedom than boys to read across genres without being judged. I hope that's not still the case, but I suspect it is.
This discussion gave me great hope, though I'm sitting here feeling lonely. I can't sit with the guys because I'm a girl. But I'm not a girly-girl YA writer. I grew up with two brothers and that kind of feminine armour is not for me. There's a YA cliqueyness that I want no part of.
What I'd like is for none of that to matter. What I'd like is more truthful books that explore the challenges involved in finding your way in a world that often feels close to madness. Books where both sexes work together towards a resolution of conflict, and the covers reflect that.
"I don't give a damn who wrote a book, I just care how the story is told, what happens, and who it happens to."
That's a great comment, Matthew. I was pretty annoyed by the WSJ sidebar of books recommended by gender. I happen to be listening to the 3rd book of A Song of Ice & Fire--I'm definitely not the type of girl to drift off during a sword fight. And my husband is not one to turn down a good romance. We're people. We love a good story, whatever it's about, whatever the gender of the author.
The Marbury Lens is, at its heart, a love story, no? ;)
lol @ boystench.
I totally agree, @Read Now Sleep Later. TML is a love story in many ways. Not really a romance, but definitely a love story.
Not that I mind a little romance. I'm writing a "YA" novel myself that is full of sword fights, martial arts, and magic, but there is also a little kissing and hand holding. It would be disingenuous, I think, to avoid that which occurs naturally in real life, just to make it more bad-ass.
It never occurred to me to question why men write YA. I just assume they write it because they love writing it, like any YA author does.
"I don't give a damn who wrote a book, I just care how the story is told, what happens, and who it happens to." Well said, Matthew! Exactly what I was thinking.
I understand that perhaps "girlier" YA sells better––that is, the romance and whatnot, not that boys can't read it. But personally, I'm a teenage girl and some of my all-time favorite YA authors are male––Markus Zusak, Neal Shusterman, Patrick Ness, Rick Riordan, Scott Westerfeld, etc.
I don't think of any kind of literature being divided by gender. Books are books, and it doesn't matter who reads or writes them.
Michael, I don't mean is it economically viable to make a living as a man writing YA (or middle-grade). For many male authors, it is, and I'm glad for that!
I mean, is there enough economic incentive for publishers to make a large-scale shift in the way they produce and market content for teens? Or even a medium-scale shift?
It's like the chicken and the egg at this point--they don't want to change until they know the change will be profitable, but they can't risk finding out if it's profitable. Especially since it seems like so little in publishing these days actually is profitable.
And the issue with covers, for instance, goes beyond gender lines. Cindy Pon's covers were changed to look less ethnic, because the old design was perceived as too different, not reaching the core of the YA market.
And we should really ask Pittacus Lore about the sponge-colony viewpoint on this topic. In the interest of covering all the bases.
Katie:
I think the two are related -- my YA is pretty non-girly (God it's hard to avoid bullshit gender tags) and they still pay me. So someone is making money.
In the long run I think the whole industry is undergoing revolutionary change. It will be easier to write for boys, but it will also be harder to promote and market. I see a few years of flailing about ahead.
I would say thought I'm working on a very action-driven transmedia project that will be apps, sites, ARG's and books (and movies, we hope.) And I'm being urged to do it again. So there is definitely some interest out there.
Michael, unrelated question, but is Gone like the Animorphs? Because I loved that when I was a kid. Equal gender representation, some romance, and lots of action with a whole bunch of aliens and sci-fi. What more could a kid want?
I'm just so totally stoked that we're talking about boys and books together! This is how the movement starts. We've all got to stand up and yell at the boys out there just to get them to look at us, because Lord knows there's enough distractions for them as it is. The last thing they need is to be shown that the only "good" books are among the covers of short skirts, training bras, and eye liner.
Hmmm... I'm not really sure that I was heading toward making a causal relationship between men who write and books that are "boy" books, although a lot of comments seem to be heading in that direction.
My original intent was to only discuss the issue of why men write. I have written dozens of posts on boys and reading.
The apparent consequence involved in raising such discussions is the subtle us/them mentality that lies beneath the surface of many of the ideas expressed, which again ultimately reinforces the I'll-conceived 70s educational and social paradigm that one group's gain must by definition involve the "out-group's" loss.
And I disagree with that undercurrent.
I see what you mean, Andrew, but I guess maybe it's a testament to the inanity of the question "why do men write YA?" that the issue quickly goes deeper than that for most people--down to the deeper question of what it means for the industry that men write YA. And I don't necessarily believe in that undercurrent-- that one writer's loss is another's gain-- but as a writer who wants to make the industry more inclusive and yet is making money in the old model, I do wonder what it might eventually mean for me, especially if I am faced at some point with a more active way to effect the change I keep saying in blog comments that I want to see.
I wish I had been there for that chat.
But I feel like once people get over the whole "ha ha, you read and write girly books" mentality (I got a lot of that when I worked at Barnes & Noble), people tend to respect you for it.
Being an oddity has its advantages. I had a lot of people approach me for advice and recommendations just because the fact that I write YA was memorable to them. Now, I regret ever hiding it from people. Gotta let that freak flag fly, I guess.
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